I want...
October 22, 2024 By
Leanne Vogel
February 4, 2025
Jim LaValle
There’s great mitochondrial peptides. So you know, there’s one called SS31 that helps with mitochondrial, you know, biogenesis, right? Rebuilding, making sure that your cells have enough mitochondrial production because everybody thinks we’ve all got a bunch of powerhouses in each one of our cells. Well, as you get older, if you beat your body up or you get an infection, right? So one of the big things that happened post Covid, and I’m not here to kind of beat the drum about COVID but the reality is post Covid, there’s plenty of papers that have shown decreased mitochondrial output, damaged mitochondria.
Leanne Vogel
My friend, we are chatting about peptides. I have been waiting and waiting and waiting to have this conversation with James Laval, who’s an internationally recognized clinical pharmacist, author, board certified clinical nutritionist and expert. An educator in the integrative and precision health, James is best known for his expertise in personalized integrative therapies, uncovering the underlying metabolic issues that keep people from feeling healthy and vital. A thought leader in the drug nutrient depletion issues, he has published four books and three databases in this area alone. As such, he has over 35 years experience in integrative, natural and integrative therapies into various medical and business models. His latest research is in drug induced microbiome disruption and he wrote a really, really great book on peptides which is now my peptide go to. We’re chatting about peptides and their multifaceted role in health. Jim shared how he got into peptides, explaining what they are and how they act as signal substances in the body.
Leanne Vogel
The conversation covered the broad range of benefits that peptides can offer, from supporting mitochondrial health, reducing inflammation to addressing spec specific issues like neurodegenerative diseases and autoimmune conditions. We also chat about managing health with specific peptides. The discussion included an in depth insight into specific peptides like sermorelin, which I personally take, GLP 1 BPC 157, which I’ve personally taken, CJC 1295 and Jim address concerns about using peptides like Ozempic, including potential issues like losing lean mass and providing guidance on how to manage these effects. We also chat about peptide administration and regulatory changes with the fda, et cetera, et cetera. So if you love our conversation today and you want to connect with Jim, you can go to jim laval.com that’s J I M L A V A L L E. He goes by Jim James. So if you see both, don’t get confused, it’s the same guy. Okay, let’s cut over to our time with Jim.
Leanne Vogel
Hey, my name is Leanne and I’m fascinated with helping women navigate how to eat, move and care for their bodies. This has taken me on a journey from vegan keto high protein to everything in between. I’m a small town holistic nutritionist turned three time international bestselling author turned functional medicine practitioner, offering telemedicine services around the globe to women looking to better their health and stop second guessing themselves. I’m here to teach you how to wade through the wellness noise to get to the good stuff that’ll help you achieve your goals. Whether you’re seeking relief from chronic ailments, striving for peak performance, or simply eager to live a more vibrant life, this podcast is your go to resource for actionable advice and inspiration. Together, we’ll uncover the interconnectedness of nutrition, movement, sleep, stress management and mindset, empowering you to make informed choices that support your unique health journey. Think of it as quality time with your bestie mixed with a little med school so you’re empowered. At your next doctor visit, get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn about your body and how to care for it healthfully.
Leanne Vogel
Join me as we embrace vitality, reclaim our innate potential, and discover what it truly means to pursue healthfulness. Hi Jim, how’s it going today?
Jim LaValle
It’s going great. Awesome. Flew in from Chicago, so I’m super excited about having my feet on the ground.
Leanne Vogel
Yeah, I bet. I just did a long trip to Canada and it ended up being with all these flight issues happening recently, it took me two days to get there, two days to get back. So I feel you on the feet, on solid ground, thinking yay land.
Jim LaValle
Exactly.
Leanne Vogel
So why don’t you start off by telling us a little bit about what lights you up in your practice and kind of how you got into the Peptide realm.
Jim LaValle
Well, you know what lights me up in my practice is I love to dial people in to get at their best performance health. And that doesn’t matter to me whether it’s someone who’s struggling with some kind of issues or it’s someone who’s trying to achieve a PR and maybe in an event or the fact that there could be a professional athlete or collegiate athlete that’s trying to perform at their best. So, I mean, I just get excited about how can I help people to achieve their best possible health. On the peptide front, it’s been interesting because, you know, it’s an emerging science since, you know, 1923. Right. I mean, you know Peptides are amino acids that are strung together that typically are between 2 and 50amino acids long. So they’re not a protein. And peptides act as signal substances for a wide variety of functions in your body.
Jim LaValle
So they can act as messengers that will tell your body to make hormones, they can help your body to improve mitochondrial function, so cellular energy, they can help with repair, they can help with kind of normalizing or improving immune function. And of course, the big one these days is they help you with regulating your blood sugar and shedding some weight. So the whole Ozempic Manjaro tsunami that’s taken place. But for me, you know, I got excited about peptides because I just saw it as another tool in the toolkit that really helped kind of bridge to getting people better quicker. So, you know, I think it’s still an evolving landscape for folks. They’re becoming aware now. But, you know, that’s, you know, you know, really probably the most significant one was my, you know, watching my son heal quickly from a Liz Frank injury where, you know, he had, you know, supposed to be out 18 months and in five months he’s spinning on the injured foot and, you know, winning the California state discus championship. You know, that’s not supposed to happen, but it happened.
Jim LaValle
So, you know, that was a big catalyst many years ago. That was, wow, these are powerful, important categories of things that we can use. And by the way, our body’s supposed to make all these things. And the more we get metabolically inflamed, the more we move away from being able to self regulate and create homeostasis.
Leanne Vogel
And so you mentioned injury as being one of the things that you’ve used the peptides for. And you mentioned a little bit earlier on, like achieving their best health. What sort of individuals have you worked with when it comes to peptide therapy? Injury, obviously one of them. What other means of support are you seeing with the peptide therapies?
Jim LaValle
You know, it’s interesting because I obviously, I chair the International Peptide Society, so talked to a lot of docs using them from. So, you know, injuries now. You know, BPC157 used to be available for human use as an injection. Currently it is not, but you can use the dietary supplement in an oral form, which actually does pretty well. So connective tissue, you know, pools, tears, strains. It can help accelerate the injury. Obviously if you have to have surgery because it tears really bad, it can help accelerate the healing process for that. So, you know, any type of, you know, bone injury, connective tissue injury in terms of like healing the gut so when you think of tightening up the tight junctions, you know, that are in our epithelial tissues, peptide peptides can help that which obviously is going to help.
Jim LaValle
Inflammation responds pretty dramatically. So you know, the, those are the biggest, you know, traumatic brain injuries. So tbis. So you really, the application for peptide therapies are strong because you got over 4,000 peptides that are identified now. You know, I sit on the side of what are we allowed to do. There’s a lot of folks out there that might be reaching for, you know, not for human or animal use peptides, which I’m not an advocate for obviously. So I think it’s important to say, well what, what do we know? What can we do? What’s on the horizon? You know, so, but injury recovery and you know, maintenance, you know, if like you said your audience is a lot of people that train a lot. So being able to recover more efficiently if you’ve pushed yourself hard, I think that’s where they can also be helpful.
Leanne Vogel
And so when you’re talking about kind of those signal substances and you’re taking a peptide, is it just doing one thing or is it doing multiple things? Like are there specific peptides that are maybe doing 100 things or is there peptides that do one thing? Like how do you, what have you seen when it, when it happens to, in the case of the kind of outcomes of these peptides?
Jim LaValle
Yeah, well, I think it depends on how upstream they are. So for example sermorelin, a growth hormone secret agog which can be utilized, I mean when you correct for growth hormone release, you know, and when you’re under a lot of stress, you inhibit growth hormone release. As you get older, you inhibit growth hormone release, you become more catabolic, you repair circadian rhythm. When you utilize Sirmorelin, there’s some, you know, nice evidence that it’s helping to improve deep sleep. So I think that depending on where the compound is functioning, it could have very specific effects, but the downstream effects are equally important. So if you look at say for example the use of, you know, the GLP1s or the incretin hormones, Semaglutide, Tirzepatide. Yes. Directly affects glucose and insulin and glucagon.
Jim LaValle
Right. So you inhibit glucagon secretion, that helps you to get rid of any kind of excess fat. Because look, I, I have a lot of people who train really hard. They eat right, they train really hard. And either because of stage in life or because they’ve over trained, they’ve induced a lot of glucagon and now they can’t get to that lean mass that they want to get to, like what they’re used to having. And so there’s a direct effect on glucose regulation, but the indirect effect of that, because the less insulin resistant you are, the better you regulate your glucose. I mean, that has downstream effects on, you know, cognitive function, neuroprotection, decreasing the effect of lipopolysaccharide in the brain, endothelial function. Right.
Jim LaValle
Getting your arteries to be able to expand and be able to get better. Microcapillary circulation, supporting kidney function, getting rid of fats in the liver. But it starts with. It’s working in a specific area of the body, but in some cases, it’s just very specific. KPV, A3 peptide, 3amino acid peptide chain mainly. You know, decreases inflammation in the gut. TNF alpha is the main target. Something like a Sir Morelin, I think, has more of a pleiotropic effect because it’s working on the HP axis.
Jim LaValle
And people that, you know, get allostatic load, right, they get overstressed. And the circuit breaker box kind of starts flipping switches right now, all of a sudden, your body’s not doing what it should be doing. It’s having a more dramatic effect because of that. So you’ve got some peptides that have these big downstream effects, and you’ve got other peptides that may have more targeted effects. And it just depends on, you know, what your application is and what you’re looking for in terms of trying to correct.
Leanne Vogel
Yeah. Sermorelin was my initial introduction into peptides. I started taking it about six months ago, and I love it. It has been such a game changer for me. For somebody that has the nutrition dialed in and the training dialed in, I’ve seen a significant change over time. Are there specific things you saw for you?
Jim LaValle
What was the big. The big aha. Like, wow, this is doing something.
Leanne Vogel
Yeah. I think with my muscle build, I trained very hard. Five to six days a week, about an hour and a half to two hours. And my trainer was surprised that I wasn’t advancing as much because my adrenals were good. We tested everything. We tested the gut, the adrenals, and everything was good. And so I chatted with my nurse practitioner friend, and she said, well, why don’t you just try, you know, 200 is it micrograms? I guess it would be. Yeah.
Leanne Vogel
That was too much for me. Um, I couldn’t sleep. It was too much like I was not sleeping. And so we went down to a hundred and that has worked really well for me. Just for muscle build, I’m noticing my muscles are bigger and more profound than they were previously and I’m able to lift more.
Jim LaValle
It’s kind of a good result.
Leanne Vogel
Yeah, I would say, you know, you put so much into it, you’re like, what am I missing? And even my testosterone has increased. Now I don’t know if that’s directly because of the Cimarillin or because I’m able to push harder in my lifts and therefore more muscle, therefore more testosterone. So a little bit of both.
Jim LaValle
Yeah, I mean I, it’s a little bit of both because remember if you had that dramatic effect from Sir Morelin that meant that your, you know, your growth hormone releasing hormone was downregulated for some reason. And you know, when you correct for that and you start to get the allostasis back, the signaling from your brain to your testosterone production that could have a direct impact. And then of course when you’re able to, you know, train harder, lift more and recover better, the recovery is the real key that then you know, you’re going to see those kind of results. And I mean I use those when we have people that are looking to lose, you know, weight, if they’re doing it, you know, for example, you know, chief science officer at Lifetime and we’ve put together weight loss programs for folks using GLP1s. We recommend SirMorelin with it because we’re going to have them exercise, we’re going to get them improving their diet, we’re going to track their labs. But the one gripe about those particular agents is hey, you lose some lean mass when you go on that type of a program and the Sirmarelin really helps to spare that. So it’s really a great compound and one of my favorites as well.
Leanne Vogel
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Leanne Vogel
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Leanne Vogel
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Jim LaValle
How many days do we have for this?
Leanne Vogel
Well, I mean, I could go as long as you want, but so first.
Jim LaValle
Of all, I think, I mean, you have to look at the reality of the situation. 50% of the US population was either insulin resistant or diabetic. So you got a huge population of people in the US, 79% overweight, 42 to 43% obese, depending on who you’re looking at. Right. And they weren’t getting results. You had a lot of people that were frustrated, hey, I’m trying to eat right, I’m exercising, I’m not seeing that weight move. And so I think that wave of Ozembic and Manjaro hit because people were just desperate to try to get weight off. And unfortunately, when that happens, there’s inappropriate use.
Jim LaValle
So people are getting it without proper guidance. They’re not getting labs tested the way they should because you do have to watch, hey, are your liver enzymes going up? What’s your amylase and lipase look like you do have to track that. And if you’re only using that and you’ve really suppressed your appetite, they’re not, a lot of times people aren’t eating enough protein to maintain their lean mass. They’re not getting good diet instruction because it is going to suppress your appetite. But you do have to eat in order to really get the full benefits from it. I get a lot of horror stories of people, oh, I’m only eating one meal a day. Well yeah, you’re going to lose all your muscle. And then if you haven’t changed your behavior, if you haven’t changed the kind of food you’re eating, got into regular exercise, well, when you go off of it because you hit your ideal weight, guess what’s going to happen, you’re going to rebound, which is what a lot of the complaints have been.
Jim LaValle
So, and I think a lot of people overdose those compounds as well. Like they, they get right away, they go into getting like Ozembic and Manjaro and get the pen and what we have found and what we’re doing and that’s what I’ve taught at the American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine with our, you know, our last gosh, our weight loss program two day certification course was 260 docs in a room, right? Teaching this is titrating the dose to where you start to lose weight. So maybe you don’t need as much of it to get the kind of, because the more you take the more you’re going to have the risk of side effects. So there’s this titration ability to titrate slowly up to the, to the dose where you’re losing two to two to three, maybe four pounds a week, no more. And why that is invaluable is your body doesn’t become as dependent on it as if you’re giving a big injection of it. That’s you know, really having a huge influence on you on a, on a course of a week. And so you’re able to kind of titrate people back down as they’ve changed their behaviors, lifestyles, manage your stress, get better sleep, all those things we know people should be doing to recover right now. What we like to say is people don’t over exercise, they under recover but you can’t over exercise.
Jim LaValle
That is true, but the reality is there has to be more than looking for it as a magic bullet. If you remember the HCG revolution from several years ago where people were using low calorie diets and HCG, this is like 15 years ago. Up to a few years ago, well, the weight would come back and they’d be, they would come back and go, oh, hey, time for my spring cleanup. You know, it’s coming up the swimsuit season or it’s coming into the holidays. I need to get on it. And I think that’s the behavior that we want to really make sure we change on people that are utilizing these kind of compounds. So I think there’s a, there’s some tremendous stories about how it’s helped people. And you know, that category of drugs has a lot of what I call side benefits, but it’s about responsible use, getting good guidance.
Jim LaValle
And first of all, if you haven’t tried anything like modified low carb diet, avoid high allergen foods, try to get some physical activity in each day. If you haven’t even tried that to get your weight off, I think that’s a good place to start before you go jumping onto a, a very powerful compound like a GLP one.
Leanne Vogel
I couldn’t agree with you more. And specifically with the nutrient deficiencies. A lot of the ladies that I’ve worked with who have gone on these, their main complaint is that their hair starts to look bad. And I always say it’s probably because you’re not eating enough protein and you’re just not getting the nutrients you need. You’re not eating enough. And so I see that time and time and time again. And it sounds like you’re saying that this is not a forever thing because there are quite a few people online that say if you’re going to start taking these GLP ones, you’re going to have to be on it forever because the minute that you get off, you’re going to gain all the weight back. But what I’m hearing you say is that it really comes from a changing your lifestyle as you’re on these things, while also keeping lean mass in mind because you’re going to be losing lean mass, which will affect the metabolism and make that after the GLP one is just that much more not great with gaining the weight and your metabolism just being broken.
Leanne Vogel
Did I summarize that pretty well?
Jim LaValle
Yeah. I mean, I think if all you’re going to do is use a GLP1 to maintain your weight, that’s it. I’m not going to do anything else. Yeah, you’re probably going to be on it. I mean, you know, because if you’re not going to change what you’re doing, it’s, it’s probably you will gain the weight back, but I mean, we’ve seen plenty of people. You know, I’ve got great docs and nurse practitioners in my clinics I’m associated with. Obviously it, you know, we’re doing this at the Miora centers at Lifetime where we’re, you know, in addition to. Yes, you know, take your GLP1 and titrate it.
Jim LaValle
Maybe take some creatine, make sure you’ve got a good base of magnesium. If you’re not a big vegetable eater, make sure you’re getting fiber and vegetables because constipation is a side effect. Right. So you can really utilize the, this peptide. You know, this family of peptides is a huge advantage to getting you on track. I like to call it a lifeline. For a lot of people it’s a good lifeline but it’s not the substitute for a lifestyle change that got you in the trouble. Most cases got you in trouble to begin with.
Leanne Vogel
Yes. And so we’ve talked about Sumarellin, we’ve talked about DLP ones. What are some of your other favorite peptides that you turn to time and time again that you just think are really great?
Jim LaValle
Yeah, you know, I think that. And now there’s, you know, there’s kind of this work with FDA and what they’re allowing and you know, and what they’re not allowing. And so I would say that from the peptide that’s now categorized because it’s naturally occurring dietary supplement wise, BPC157 is amazing. It’s amazing. I mean we worked with developing like a liposomal tablet delivery of it. So we keep the particle size really small and it’s been working great. And I like that compound because as we get older and we train hard, we get sorer longer and we’re more prone to injury as our connective tissue dries out. And so the beautiful thing about body protection compound that’s BPC157 is it really helps with hydration of your connective tissue.
Jim LaValle
Helps to keep that post exercise soreness from being excessive. I know for me I’m in my 60s and I still like to train hard. You know, I, you know, I can’t wait because I’m going to get out in my garage after this and I’m going to get after it. I’m very excited.
Leanne Vogel
Yeah, you are. I just finished mine. I’m a total sweaty mess still.
Jim LaValle
And so it’s like I really love that. But I also have to realize that with each decade in life our ability to repair does go down some, you know. And so I think that’s another area where it can be beneficial. The other big one I just mentioned was kpv, because it’s another one that works on inflammatory signaling. And then there’s some new ones, KCF18, you know, it’s another peptide that helps with binding to inflammatory compounds in your body. Obviously, you’ve got ones that can be, you know, that have been used, you know, traditionally, like Celank or C Max to help, you know, the brain to reduce anxiety, to improve gaba, reduce glutamate. Those are right now on the, on the. Hey, we don’t know if we’re going to continue to be able to use those or not.
Jim LaValle
You know, that’s currently category two. But, you know, I think that, you know, as you, as you look at, you know, what you can utilize. If I’m able to help with growth hormones, secretion, you know, we used to be able to use, you can still use something called gnadarelin. So gnadarelin, probably pretty obvious what it’s for. It’s for your gonads, whether you’re a male or a female. And it can help because, remember, when you get under a lot of stress or you release a lot of cortisol, what happens is, is you inhibit GnRH, gonadotropin releasing hormone. So gnadarelin helps you to stimulate that, to normalize your hormone production. So say for.
Jim LaValle
I mean, I have more and more men that have, you know, come into our facilities and I consult with companies that, you know, do men’s health. And, you know, you can’t start replacing testosterone on them when they’re in their 20s. You know, they really need to have their brain reattached to their testicles, right? That cannot signal of GnRH. Likewise, women with ovaries, right, so that we have estradiol production, testosterone production, and, you know, it never is in a vacuum because if your gut is permeable, if you do have dysbiosis, if you’re making a lot of lipopolysaccharide, you know, which is. That comes from the breakdown of the, of the gut microbiome. You know, that lipopolysaccharide inhibits the receptors of your hormones, so you can get some inhibition of your, the efficiency of your hormone receptors. So I always like to preface this is, you know, I love peptides, but I think you always have to be in that attitude, like we talked about before we started and you mentioned this, okay? You got to get your chemistry, your foundational chemistry. You should be working on that anyway, because it’ll enhance the effect of the chronic use of, say, a peptide for performance enhancement or for longevity.
Jim LaValle
Obviously, the thymic peptides like thymulin, which help T killer cells. So, you know, we all have a thymus gland. Thymus gland, as we age, gets kind of beat up, wants to shrink. You don’t make as effective T killer cells, so you’re not fighting things off as well. But it also helps in terms of immunomodulation. Right. Trying to keep that immune system in balance. So I think the thymic peptides are, you know, really fantastic from that perspective.
Jim LaValle
And then of course, you know, you know, I could go on with these forever. There’s, there’s great mitochondrial peptides. So, you know, there’s one called SS31 that helps with mitochondrial, you know, biogenesis. Right. Rebuilding, making sure that your cells have enough mitochondrial production. Because everybody thinks we’ve all got a bunch of powerhouses in each one of our cells. Well, as you get older, if you beat your body up or you get an infection, right. So one of the big things that happened post Covid, and I’m not here to kind of beat the drum about COVID but the reality is, post Covid, there’s plenty of papers that have shown decreased mitochondrial output, damaged mitochondria.
Jim LaValle
So how do we help people to repair at that mitochondrial level? Because some of the symptoms that people have in the long haul category, fatigue, muscle aches, cognitive issues, actually relate to the fact that they’ve lost mitochondrial performance. So SS31 is interesting. Certainly there’s one called ACE31, which is another one that can help with muscle and maintenance of lean mass. So, you know, there’s, I think, a new wave of peptides coming out that are kind of meeting the, I think, the evolving terrain of acceptance, you know, so what, what will FDA say? Yeah, it’s okay to use that because the safety on it is well defined and, you know, so that, so that people can, you know, not only be able to be on these, but know that they’re going to be able to stay on them. You know, one of the big ones, which it looks like it’s going to come back is CJC 1295, which is similar in action to Sir Morellon. It’s not back yet, but that was probably one of the really big ones on the body composition side, you know, for people that were training. Everybody was talking about CJC 1295, which of course, another secret of GOG and was very, you know, seemed very effective. But then, you know, we had the list come out that Said hey, can’t compound that one anymore.
Jim LaValle
But I do want to, you know, I do want to warn people, you know, buying products that are not for human use, you know, there’s a reason that you get them from a compounding pharmacy from for human use. Or you go, if you want to get Manjaro or Zembic because you qualify, great, right, get them from a traditional pharmaceutical company. It’s that the, all of the operating procedures to make it are kind of approved and are monitored, right? So that you know that you’re getting all of the endotoxin out of the, you know, out of the vial, right? When you’re making it so different from when it’s not for human use, you can have variations in potency, you can have adulteration, there’s a lot of issues around that. And so that’s what I try to, you know, get people to understand is you know, you want to make sure these are powerful, powerful agents. You want to make sure you’re getting them from, you know, reputable sources. And like you went through an mp, you had nurse practitioners say hey, you should try this. And I think that’s really important because there’s a lot of the like called contraband or not for human use products that are on the market, that are out there on the Internet left and right.
Leanne Vogel
And that brings me into my next question which is really my understanding is that the lipopolysaccharides should be low or non existent in the product. And like in the case of Sumirelin, I don’t know if you can get this online. I know that Peptide Sciences has it but if you purchase it it says not for human use, not for animal use. Like do they just say that because they’re trying to cover their butts? Or like what’s, what’s the deal with that?
Jim LaValle
Well, it’s a way. So it’s for laboratory use only, that’s what it says. And you’re supposed to sign something that says it’s not going to be used in an animal, not going to be used in a human. And, and oh by the way, you’re a lab, which I don’t think is happening. An awful lot of labs out there.
Leanne Vogel
So many labs.
Jim LaValle
And so it’s a different standard of evaluation of the product and classification by the fda. So if it’s for lab use you could have variations in the potency filtration. Like when you’re talking about endotoxin, which is what you’re looking for in those is you want to remove any endotoxin there’s special filters that they use for that when it’s for human use, and they have to test for all that. So you may have a not for human use lab that’s doing everything right, and that’s fine, but they’re, they’re not. They don’t meet the qualifications or standards of what the FDA requires. Right. And so that’s. So it allows product to get out, which I’m frankly, you know, I’m a pharmacist.
Jim LaValle
I’m a clinical pharmacist. You know, I get a little confused about, well, why do we even have those out there on the market?
Leanne Vogel
Yeah, yeah, that’s what I’m confused over. Because a lot of my clients will be like, I found xyz. And I’m like, I’m not sure we should be doing that. But when you’re talking about endotoxins, what exactly are these? And what is it doing? And what. Like, is there a classification of endotoxins? Because an endotoxin, I guess, is just an umbrella of items. Correct. What are the endotoxins that are involved and why does that happen in peptide creation?
Jim LaValle
Yeah, I mean, so first of all, some peptides are just, you know, in the manufacturing process, throw off these endotoxins. So what is an endotoxin? An endotoxin is a compound like you mentioned, lipopolysaccharide that can bind to the cell membrane of a cell and trigger the inflammatory cascade and. Or it can penetrate the cell and trigger, you know, nf, kappa B and any number of inflammatory responses. And so the, you know, so obviously that’s a big problem if you’re injecting that and, you know, you’re getting it directly into your tissues. And so with endotoxin, yeah, there’s a, you know, there’s a broad category of, you know, of endotoxin, but they all kind of get classified into one group that’s deleterious to your health. Right. So they can measure endotoxin. They can get, you know, have the signature when they scan for endotoxin.
Jim LaValle
And like I said, you could have a lab that might be doing it and getting, doing everything right. But if it’s not for human use, it’s not for human use. And I’m pretty adamant about that with people when I, when they talk to me. So, like, oh, can I just like, like, you. Can I. Can I just get this online? And I’ve even had doctors that, before they understood it, like, we have, you know, in our peptide certification course where we’re teaching healthcare professionals about the responsible use of peptides. You know, we go through the legal side of that and I have a pharmacist who specializes in making them go through all of the aspects of manufacturing. So they understand that when it’s for human use, you’ve got all these extra criteria and validations that you have to do.
Jim LaValle
And it could cost with the new fda, and this isn’t anything bad, it’s just, you know, they have new requirements for batch testing and validation that it could cost, you know, up to $100,000 for a batch to do it correctly. And a. That’s why it’s more expensive to do it. But if you’re going to be. I mean, I’ve always been an avid. Look, if I’m going to put something in my body, if it’s food, I’m going to look for the best quality food I can. If it’s a dietary supplement, I want to know that it’s the raw material that it should be and that the product is being made in a facility that, you know, I could trust. Right.
Jim LaValle
And I would say with anything you’re injecting, it’s even more important. Right.
Leanne Vogel
And so we haven’t talked about the delivery method. You mentioned oral a little bit with the BPC 157. But how are we, how are we taking these peptides and why are you taking them as an injection?
Jim LaValle
So, I mean, so there’s virtually every way you would deliver any other type of, you know, nutrient you’re trying to get in your body or drug you’re trying to get your body. It’s being utilized with peptides. You have topical peptides. So for example, there’s, and look, there’s peptides that come from natural sources. You know, goat milk has a lot of peptides in it, right? I mean, there’s so, there’s just. So people understand a lot of natural plant peptides, right? There’s lots of different sources of peptides. So topically they’re delivered skin rejuvenation, skin repair, post, you know, any type of treatment to the skin. Ghk.
Jim LaValle
So, you know, it’s called ghk, cu, right, is a copper peptide that is really good at supporting collagen. It also is quite good at being basically a gene modulator. So it kind of, you know, GHK is good at keeping your genes from, you know, turning on, turning off and, you know, sending you in the wrong direction. But currently, you know, GHK is used for hair. So it helps the health of the Bulb of the follicle and your, in your hair. So if you’ve had a procedure, if your hair is thinning, if you’re a woman, post Covid hair loss, right. GHK foams or serums combined with thymulin combined with a couple of, you know, like caffeine actually is very good for your hair, right? Melatonin, good for your hair. Those things can be used topically.
Jim LaValle
There are, there are peptides that can be, that can survive digestion or depending on the way they’re delivered, they can, you know, you can use them as a pill. You can, you know, you can inject a peptide. So it can be a sterile compound that’s injected and then there’s other topicals that are being researched that can carry the peptide deep into your tissue. So based on the weight of the lipids, Right. So it’s a lot of different ways that you can deliver peptides. Intranasally is another delivery method for peptides. And so, you know, for, you know, what you hope is you’re, you’re going to go to a practitioner who has seen a measure of success with whatever delivery vehicle they’re using. So, hey, I use intranasal sermorelin and I’m getting results with that.
Jim LaValle
All right, You’re a clinician, you’re seeing results and great. Right. But depending on which peptide it is, you know, injection may be the way that it’s most effective or what’s been proven. If you look at some of the literature. You know what’s been proven, right? So there’s things like Ara290, for example, which was fantastic for, you know, blood vessels related to the eyes. Right. And, you know, reducing, you know, inflammatory issues with, you know, circulation to the eyes, like, you know, retinopathies. And, you know, that has only been used by injection.
Jim LaValle
So, you know, and that’s an orphan drug that had orphan drug status. AOD is another one that, you know, is a fraction of growth hormone that was used for specifically burning fat and that had, you know, grass affirmed. I mean, it was generally recognized as safe, but it got put on the list and we’ll see whether that’s going to come back because the safety profiles there for that. So, yeah, you could pretty much put, you can, you know, I haven’t seen anybody do a suppository with them yet, but, you know, might happen.
Leanne Vogel
You know, I’m all for suppositories. It just takes the right client to be like, yeah, I’ll try that.
Jim LaValle
I mean, yeah, we’re definitely here in The US we’re supposing torophobic, you know, but so other areas of the world have. And there are some, I’d say some. There’s been some dabbling in that area specifically for more immune compounds. But, you know, I think the big thing to note is, is this is where, you know, this is where medicine is going now. You’ve got major pharmaceutical companies that are doing all their research in peptides. There’s some interesting applications of peptides that may be able to be swallowed as powders, but these are kind of new, a little more avant garde, not really that available yet. So, you know, think of it as, you know, pills, chewable tablets, injections, topicals. And that’s going to get you pretty much the majority of where peptides are being used.
Jim LaValle
And of course, the injectable.
Leanne Vogel
Yes, absolutely. There’s a new company coming out soon and they’re going to be specializing in powdered peptides taken orally. I’m really excited to kind of see where things are going to go with that because I know that, you know, talking about sub Q type of injections, it can kind of throw some people off. I know that when my nurse practitioner said, yeah, you just take this needle, I’m like, you lost me a needle, you know, and so it’s not as bad as you think it will be, but it can throw people off to wanting to give that a try.
Jim LaValle
I absolutely think that it’s a rate limiting step. And for some of the secreted guys like the Sir, Morelin, Ipamorelin, Tessa Morelin, when they were available, they tend to create a little bit of a reaction. You can get people that might get skin irritation, you know, an allergic wheel or rash. And I think anything, you know, some people just don’t want to do an injection. They get scared of a little needle. And I get it. And then also sometimes people get fatigue, you know, like injection fatigue and you know, can I travel with it? Oh, I got to keep that peptide cold. And there’s all that stuff is floating around.
Jim LaValle
I mean, one of the ones we didn’t talk about that I probably should have mentioned is vasoactive intestinal peptide. So vip, which is originally was used a lot and kind of the final rehabilitation of a SIRS patient. Right. The chronic inflammatory response syndrome person that got exposed to mold or, you know, had a tick bite or something and it activated a whole bunch of their immune system. And as you’re cleaning that person up, you’re trying to reset the melanocortin system in your brain and get your melanocyte stimulating hormone to come back up. And, you know, VIP does that. But now you’re seeing people using it more even for just immune modulation. And so I think Vip, while it used to be kind of a little bit, you know, rarer to see it, I think there’s a much more big uptick in utilizing vasoactive intestinal peptide.
Jim LaValle
So.
Leanne Vogel
And perhaps even for autoimmune conditions, I’ve been chatting with some practitioners about the modulation of the immune system to THY one, TH two balancing and using it. So have you seen that too, or.
Jim LaValle
Well, by default, if I, if I get my melanocortin system working properly. Right. You’re going to, once again, from the brain down, start to create homeostasis and more normal signaling. So, yes, great for, you know, modulation of TH1 and TH2. And, you know, a lot of people were pushed towards th2 nowadays because of how permeable their gut is. So they’re histaminic and everybody’s now got mass mastocytosis. Right. You know, we’re all one big mast cell now.
Leanne Vogel
Yeah, that’s true.
Jim LaValle
You got a lot of cell, you got a lot of tissues that you get the histamine genes turned on. They’re making histamine too. But so, yeah, there’s no doubt that there’s that immunomodulatory effect from it that has got a lot of benefit and, you know, regulating antidiuretic hormones so you don’t feel as puffy, right? It’s another complaint. A lot of people, I’m holding water. Why do I feel so puffy? Right? So I think there’s a lot of benefits to, you know, VIP as well. I just, you know, and once again, it’s a wide open ocean of, you know, new compounds. TP508, probably the next hot one for skin and repair. I didn’t mention, you know, BPC on skin and repair, but TP508, you know, it’s probably going to be the next big peptide that’s out there in terms of like, you know, helping with bone healing and helping with connective tissue healing and maybe and even aesthetic procedures, right, where they’re using things like, you know, now, now that people are moving away from kind of like the filler experience and the Botox experience, they’re looking for more natural ways.
Jim LaValle
So, you know, making your own collagen with, you know, your own blood by spinning it down and creating, you know, you know, PRFs or PRPs, right? So you get these growth factors and when they add the Acceptable peptides, you can stimulate those growth factors and get, you know, a better effect.
Leanne Vogel
Yes, completely. Now, when we’re thinking about one, one that you didn’t mention, we were talking about mitochondria was MOT C. And I know that with motc, we need to take, we should make sure that we are methylating properly and we’re taking enough folate. Are there other peptides and this is a large question, so feel free to just give me a couple examples, but are there other peptides that we need to be checking? Things like what you were saying with the GLP1 and making sure that you’re checking your liver enzymes. Are there other things we need to be thinking of and just not going on the Internet, grabbing a whole bunch of things and starting to inject ourselves without testing? That’s kind of why I’m asking the.
Jim LaValle
Question once again, Motsi, another great compound that’s probably going to go as a drug that is now, you know, not available for compounding. But any of the mitochondrial catalysts like SS31, you would want to make sure that if my homocysteine is elevated, I certainly want to correct my, my methylation, right? I, you know, if my, my deoxyguanicin is elevated, right, I’m damaging my DNA. I want to clean up, you know, is that an environmental burden? What’s, what’s going on with it? But, you know, so with the mitochondrial peptides, yes, you would look at, you know, look at methylation. Where are we at on that? I’d make sure you’ve got mitochondrial catalysts on board. So making sure you’ve got CoQ10, you’ve got PQQ, maybe Benfetiamin, you know, so that you’re, you know, addressing that support. I mean, green tea, I mean, my gosh, EGCG is fantastic for upregulating mitochondrial function, right? So because you upregulate sirtuins and Sirtuins Upregulate PGC1 Alpha and PGC1 Alpha tells all your mitochondria. Get, get, get back into cell and get working, right? So, so, you know, you’ve got nutrients that you get on board to help. And then, you know, as, as we talked about with the GLP1s, you should be looking at where are your liver enzymes at? Where’s your amylase and lipase at? Where’s your kidney function at? Do you have a history of a medullary thyroid carcinoma or an endocrine tumor? If you have a family history of that or your own personal history at the GLP1s you should not play with, shouldn’t be around them.
Jim LaValle
And, you know, with growth hormone secretogues, if you’ve got a history of cancer, you probably shouldn’t be doing those. You know, why stimulate growth.
Leanne Vogel
Growth. It’s a bad idea. It’s an absolute bad idea. In fact, before I got started with the Summerlin, I had a full MRI scan, because I’m that kind of person to just make sure that there was nothing happening because, yeah, you have to be responsible for. Sure. A big topic that comes up time and time again is the concern around neurodegenerative diseases. And we haven’t really touched on that when it comes to peptides. Are, are peptides a good place for people to start thinking about when they have concerns over Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s at all?
Jim LaValle
Of course, there’s like cerebral lysin, which is available through compassionate use with the proper paperwork that people can use. So you can get cerebral lysin in the US but it just has to be documented and it’s through a not for profit 513c. It has to get shipped in from out of the country. But cerebral lysine is fantastic in terms of neural regeneration. However, I would say when you’re talking about Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s, you know, you’ve got a, you know, you’ve got this big problem of Parkinson’s is predominantly an environmental burden issue, right? So if you’re trying to spare a neuron or spare the substantia nigra by using something like, you know, cerebral lysin, you know, or binding up inflammatory compounds like galectin 3, which is kind of the principal trigger for Alzheimer’s, right? Your lipopolysaccharide goes up, crosses the blood brain barrier. Galectin 3 comes out to try to save the day, but it has to keep saving the day. So it keeps going up and up and up, and that’s what really triggers your neurodegeneration. So something like that KCF that I talked about earlier, that helps to bind to that galectin, could be, could be invaluable.
Jim LaValle
But I’m, you know, I think that peptides by themselves, like only doing a peptide, is not going to have the effect that you would want. Because Alzheimer’s, otherwise known as type 3 diabetes, you got a lot of oxidative stress, you’ve got microglial cell activation in the brain, you know, using things like synapse and, you know, Ginsenoside, R3, Synocide, RB1, are really good for helping to regulate that whole, you know, microglial activation and down regulate the oxidative burden and damage. But you know, you certainly the big ones that were helping a lot of people kind of got taken out. So this, you know, cell length C max were big human, which is a unbelievable mitochondrial resuscitator. Not really available to any extent in the US yet, but fantastic. And then you know, if you think of the, you know, Dihexa got taken off the compounding list. So dihexa used to be used in those situations. But the, you know, the use of cerebral lysin, probably the most famous peptide for, you know, kind of reducing neuro inflam aging.
Jim LaValle
Right. And because you know what happens of course is the neuron dies. And when the neuron dies, it releases compounds like laminin and neurolaminant and alpha cine, which then triggers the microglial cells to get even more ticked off, which then triggers the oxidative stress. So it’s this vicious cycle that occurs that, you know, you need to erupt. And I really feel like people need to think of those kind of conditions is a multifaceted approach in order to really get somewhere.
Leanne Vogel
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Leanne Vogel
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Jim LaValle
I’m not much of a political animal and I, and I do think that, you know, the FDA is there to protect, but they didn’t really give good reasons for why. They created what was called a Category 2 list of a do not compound list that was let out about eight months ago. And it took a lot of the big peptides that were on the market being used by physicians and other health care providers took a lot of them away. And I, you know, look, you can get into all kinds of theories. Oh, it’s pharma or, you know, they don’t want us. Well, or whatever. The bottom line is, is they’ve set out specific rules of engagement. And I think that’s all that responsible compounding pharmacies want is they, they want to know, what can I, what can I do? You know, give me clear guidance.
Jim LaValle
And I think the peptides got so big so fast that it kind of caught the FDA off guard a little bit now. And I’m, I’m going to say that I think that many of the compounds that were taken off, I think all of them, I don’t think they had any big health risk associated with them. But nonetheless, once the FDA says, hey, do not compound. Okay, let’s play by the book. And what’s happening though is that there is a whole process that we’re going through now to submit evidence to the FDA in regards to, say, the top six out of the 10, you know, you know, got to be realistic. You’re probably not going to get all 10. So let’s get the six most likely candidates. I helped write the paper on CJC that’s going to get submitted so that we can get them back.
Jim LaValle
So I think, whereas the, you know, FDA took a bunch of stuff away, I think that they recanted a bit and said, hey, let’s, let’s look at this closer. I hope that we get more policing of the not for human use stuff. I really haven’t seen much activity there. Now apparently there’s going to be some. And make it real easy. Just, you know, show your CLIA number and lab certification on your. When you go to order.
Leanne Vogel
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So you’ve mentioned a couple of areas that you’re involved in, including Lifetime, which is where I got my motc, but you’ve just told me that that’s not going to happen anymore, so I’m pretty bummed about this. But is that kind of. Can you tell us other areas that we connect with you or places to go for more resources when it comes to peptides?
Jim LaValle
Well, I mean, obviously, jimmy.com I’ll have information on it. The book that you just showed the hand, the Handbook on Peptide Therapy, second edition, is coming out with all the new peptides that are available and picking the ones that we know are going to stay available so that you can really get good at using things that, you know, people are allowed to do, like stay in line. And there’s plenty of things that you can utilize and then, you know, Instagram the real Jim Laval. I’ll have little, you know, there’ll be blurbs and small podcasts on, you know, you know, somebody asking me about peptides. There’s a fair amount of those up, actually. So there’ll be. If you, if you go jimmy.com@a4m, they have a lot of posts about our peptide certification courses and, and share some peptide information. So there’s plenty out there.
Jim LaValle
But I, you know, I’ve really tried to emphasize, you know, we have to do this right. We do have to collect data on. Well, if people are having an adverse event, we should know about it. There should be good collection of that adverse event data. And because we want people to get great results. Right. Like you. I mean, you’re.
Jim LaValle
My body composition changed. I was eating right, I was exercising, and man, I started on that. Now I’m. My, my lean mass is up, my shape and contour is different. I mean, come on, that’s, that’s the beauty of it, right? And it’s the same thing when, you know, we get a, you know, a note come in or a testimonial come in for somebody that had an Achilles tear and they’re like, hey, I’m back squatting in five weeks. I can’t believe this. I mean, I’ve had some pretty dramatic things happen over the years with injuries that people would go, no, it’s not possible. There’s no way that happened.
Jim LaValle
And, and they’re, I mean, it was literally a miracle that what happened. You know, there was a, a guy that, you know, broke his neck, was on a, you know, literally went off a bridge, mountain biking. I got a, you know, we got a call into the facility and, and they just asked like, well, hey, what can you do? And I said, well, find a doc in your area. Here are some peptides that could help with neuroregeneration. And in five weeks, he still had his halo on, but he was able to start doing chin ups.
Leanne Vogel
Wow.
Jim LaValle
And they told him that for six months he was going to have burning limb syndrome and his grip was going to be off and he’s, you know, he’s going to have all these problems. And so I really see the horizon for the use of these is amazing because I’ve seen cases even crazier than that where that really helped. But, you know, it now it’s kind of going to be under, you know, under guidance, which is okay, you know, but, but let’s keep them around. Let’s don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Right. Let’s keep them around because I think are an important toolkit. And that toolkit, one of the most important tools that’s going to help people to stay in that balance. I’m a big believer in homeostasis.
Jim LaValle
I don’t believe we should push our body like super physiologic doses of hormones. Inject yourself with peptides, 12 of them, three, four times a day. You know, I mean all that stuff. I think our body has this intelligence of balance of redox, oxidation reduction reactions, burning of fat, repair of oxidative burden. And you can see that in labs. Is it distorted or not? And we should try to keep our goal should be how do we use these things to promote that suspension of aging, that suspension of metaflammation and inflammaging and not necessarily to, you know, hey, if I just do more of them because more is better.
Leanne Vogel
Yeah, yeah. I call them nudges with my clients. Like we just need to nudge your body. We don’t need to like pick it up and move it to a different country because that’s not, that’s not what we need. And the body is so intelligent. That little nudge, like my experience with the Summerlin at 200 micrograms way too much for me. That little nudge of 100 was all I needed. And so we don’t need to go so hard at things.
Jim LaValle
And I think that’s same reason with the GLP ones. What I like I have people that need, you know, they need 300 micrograms of sir Morelin. And I have people that like yourself, 100 suffices. And sometimes they do 100 in the morning and 100 at night because they’re training for a competition or. But you know, the big. And what I always tell people with that particular peptide is take it at bedtime. You know, the one time you’re going to take it, take it at bedtime, an hour away from food, don’t eat afterwards and really help your body to restore that natural growth hormone release. Really optimize that circadian kind of re patterning of cortisol.
Jim LaValle
Right. So that, that’s the key. And, and you know, when you, when you think of what the the future is bright on, peptides are so. Yes interesting peptides that are coming out. And you know, I, I think, you know, like on the new book, I mean most will they’ll hear about a lot of these like ACE31 and 031 and SS31 and KCF and all these different new peptides that are coming out to really help people obtain, you know, the health they want, which is what I call performance health.
Leanne Vogel
I can’t wait for your new book. I read the initial one in a day. Just don’t bother me. The door is closed. I’m reading so I can’t wait for that. Jim, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It’s such a great conversation. You’re so knowledgeable, so thanks again.
Jim LaValle
Oh my pleasure.
Leanne Vogel
I hope you enjoyed our episode with Jim here. If you want to connect with him further, you can go to jimleval.com I hope you have a great rest of your week and I will see you back here next Tuesday for another episode. Bye. Thanks for listening to the Helpful Pursuit Podcast. Join us next Tuesday for another episode of the show. If you’re looking looking for free resources, there are a couple of places you can go. The first to my blog, healthfulpursuit.com where you’re going to find loads of recipes. The second is a free parasite protocol that I’ve put together for you that outlines symptoms, testing and resources to determine whether or not you have a parasite, plus a full protocol to follow to eradicate them from your life if you need to.
Leanne Vogel
That’s available at healthfulpursuit.com parasites and last but certainly not least, a full list of blood work markers to ask your doctor for so that you can get a full picture of your health. You can grab that free resource by going to healthfulpursuit.com labs. The helpful pursuit Podcast, including show notes and links, provides information in respect to healthy living recipes, nutrition and diet and is intended for informational purposes only. The information provided is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor is it to be construed as such. We cannot guarantee that the information provided on the Healthful Pursuit Podcast reflects the most up to date medical research. Information is provided without any representation or warranties of any kind. Please consult a qualified health practitioner with any questions you may have regarding your health and nutrition program.
Hi! I'm Leanne (RHN FBCS)
a Functional Medicine Practitioner, host of the Healthful Pursuit Podcast, and best-selling author of The Keto Diet & Keto for Women. I want to live in a world where every woman has access to knowledge to better her health.