Do You Have Cortisol Belly? with Lacey Dunn

By February 4, 2025

Transcript

Lacey Dunn [00:00:00]

When you’re going through a phase, whether that’s like, hey, I’ve gotten H. Pylori or hey, I’ve gotten Candida or hey, I got a parasite, like when you’re doing these protocols, this is hard on your body. Your body, as you’re taking that, whatever you’re taking, whether that be oregano, garlic, biofilm disruptors, whatever it is, it’s going to be hard on your body because as you’re killing off those pathogens, they’re going to be releasing toxins into your body that’s going to increase your cortisol. So typically, people, actually their adrenal status gets a little bit worse as they’re going on these programs. As you’re trying to kill off the gut bugs, get rid of the toxicin toxins, you can have, you know, suboptimal alterations in your thyroid and your sex hormones and your adrenal status.

Leanne Vogel [00:00:37]

Welcome to today’s episode. It’s Kevin, Leanne’s husband. Leanne still doesn’t have a voice. Well, she does, but it’s all correctly. So I’m introducing the podcast today. But don’t worry, she is doing the main interview in today’s episode. You guys are going to delve into the complexities of adrenal health and stress management with the insightful Lacy Dunn. As a functional medicine dietitian specializing in hormone imbalances, thyroid disorders and adrenal dysfunction, Lacey brings a wealth of knowledge on how to optimize your health.

Leanne Vogel [00:01:09]

You’re going to explore adrenal function, the importance of proper testing and how stress, sleep and diet impact your overall well being. Lacey shares her expertise from her bestselling book, the Women’s Guide to Hormonal Harmony and provides practical advice to help you thrive. If you enjoy what she shares, her website is upliftfitnutrition.com I hope you enjoy the interview. Hey, my name is Leanne and I’m fascinated with helping women navigate how to eat, move and care for their bodies. This has taken me on a journey from vegan keto, high protein to everything in between. I’m a small town holistic nutritionist turned three time international bestselling author turned functional medicine practitioner, offering telemedicine services around the globe to women looking to better their health and stop second guessing themselves. I’m here to teach you how to wade through the wellness noise to get to the good stuff that’ll help you achieve your goals. Whether you’re seeking relief from chronic ailments, striving for peak performance, or simply eager to Live a more vibrant life.

Leanne Vogel [00:02:11]

This podcast is your go to resource for actionable advice and inspiration. Together, we’ll uncover the interconnectedness of nutrition, movement, sleep, stress management, and mindset, empowering you to make informed choices that support your unique health journey. Think of it as quality time with your bestie mixed with a little med school so you’re empowered at your next doctor visit, get ready to be challenged and encouraged while you learn about your body and how to care for it healthfully. Join me as we embrace vitality, reclaim our innate potential, and discover what it truly means to pursue healthfulness. Hey, Lacey, how’s it going?

Lacey Dunn [00:02:59]

It’s going great. I’m so excited to be on your podcast today and it’s just a beautiful day to be chatting with you, so thanks for having me on.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:06]

Yes, of course. It has been a long time coming. I’ve actually thought about asking you multiple times, so I’m just so glad that you agreed and you’re here.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:03:15]

Oh, of course. To all your listeners. Hello. You guys are in for a treat today.

Leanne Vogel [00:03:20]

Yes, Lacey is always a treat. Can you tell us a little bit about you, what you do, what lights you up just to kind of give us an idea of who Lacy is?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:03:29]

Yeah. So I’ll give a brief rundown because any shape or form of podcast I listen to, I just like skip over the guests intro. So, hello, my name is Lacey. I am a functional medicine dietitian, previous bodybuilder, now all about helping people go from simply just surviving to absolutely thriving. And I have gone through my own cortisol issues, weight gain issues, mold, H. Pylori, Sibo, candida parasites, you name it. Like, I’ve gone through it. And honestly, all of that has made me just such a better clinician and has completely brought me even closer to God.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:04:04]

So I’m all about helping people get back to their very best self, feel absolutely comfortable and happy with their bodies, but also getting them back to absolutely just living their best life. And that’s who I am. I still love weight training. I have this adorable tripod dog I’m obsessed with and I am just a Netflix junkie. So that’s about it, about me.

Leanne Vogel [00:04:24]

So, okay, adrenal dysfunction, adrenal fatigue. Where do you land on? Is it dysfunction? Is it fatigue? Is it something else? Before we kind of get into the what’s happening here? How do you classify the adrenal situation?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:04:39]

Yeah, that’s a great question because quote unquote, adrenal fatigue is something that a lot of people are trying to latch onto. And it’s not recognized in the medical community. So there’s different levels of what can go wrong with the adrenals. So we have clinical diagnoses such as Cushing’s disease. So the body is just outputting a crap ton of cortisol. There’s Addison’s disease, in which we no longer make a lot of cortisol. Then there’s clinical situations with cortisol issues to where there might be a hypothalamic pituitary issue with different things like crh, acth. So not to, like, confuse your listeners, but we have clinical diagnoses in which the cl.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:05:14]

The adrenals are actually not doing the way that they’re not working the way that they should. And then we have subclinical diagnoses where this is what we’re talking about today, where the adrenals are adapting to some shape or form of stress. So for your listeners to know, you know, cortisol is typically outputted in times of stress, inflammation, infection. And that stress can be anything that the body perceives as a stress. So it could be internal, it could be external, it could be physical, physiological, psychological. So whether that’s mental, emotional, spiritual, physical stress, the body responds by outputting cortisol, epinephrine, norepinephrine. And when it does that, is trying to get you to run away from the internal or external tiger. So cortisol is released, whether that’s Karen from work pissing us off, or we fall, we have an injury, or we’re just a busy mom, just go, go, go throughout the day.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:06:07]

And essentially over time, that cortisol, being high, high, high for a period of time, starts to adapt. And this is what we call the adrenal adaptation phase. And then after months to years, or after maybe a very stressful event like a car accident, loss of a loved one, injury, surgery, then we walk into the low cortisol phase. So it’s not essentially that over time our adrenals stop working. It’s our adrenals are adapting to the environment. Instead of pumping out cortisol, they actually start pumping out more epinephrine and norepinephrine, different catecholamine. And we could talk about the different things that happen when it comes metabolically. But I want your listeners to know that we can’t have clinical diagnoses of our, like, our adrenals no longer working correctly.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:06:51]

That can happen. But today we’re talking about how does our body adapt to that cortisol response? Because that’s what we are Seeing for the most part with everybody nowadays, especially when it comes down to the post Covid era, is the adrenals have adapted to this really high stressful response. And so it’s not like they’re not working. They’re working, they’ve just adapted. And we have to get back to a healthier physiological state through diet, lifestyle and supplementation.

Leanne Vogel [00:07:16]

So what I’m hearing you say is the adrenals go through a period of almost overproduction and then kind of the swing of is it underproduction or is, would you say it’s underproduction of the cortisol?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:07:28]

Yes. So they definitely decrease the amount of cortisol output that they release. It’s more of a safety mechanism response, just like when it comes down to hypothyroidism. Right. So if there’s a stressor to the body, the body’s going to downregulate their own thy, your own thyroid production. It’s same with cortisol. So your body does decrease your own production. It doesn’t go kaput.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:07:46]

It doesn’t. Your, your adrenal glands aren’t fatiguing, they’re just slowing and reducing the release of cortisol.

Leanne Vogel [00:07:53]

And are there specific symptoms that you look for that will kind of tell you whether or not you’re kind of in that first phase of overproduction or in that kind of later stage of underproduction? Like how do you, as an individual that’s listening, is there a way to determine just based on symptoms, which one you’re kind of in?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:08:11]

So that’s the biggest thing that I see people do that shoots them in the foot. They try and follow and chase these symptoms, and I’ll list them out. But honestly, sometimes the symptoms of high cortisol are the symptoms of low cortisol. So that’s the most important thing I want your listeners to get away from is you can have symptoms of, you know, high cortisol, low cortisol, low estrogen, high estrogen, you know, low thyroid, you name it. But that doesn’t mean that that’s always going to be the case for you because you have so, so many other systems in the body that can create other different symptoms. So for the most part, or for an example, high cortisol, typically there’s going to be this fight and flight mode. Whether that’s anger, irritation, there could be a tired and wired feeling, trouble sleeping, brain fog. We see like high, fast heart rate, high blood pressure.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:08:55]

Some people typically wake up in the middle of the night, and then we typically See a high blood sugar in weight gain around your middle section. Now, there are other things, of course, that can happen. You can have caffeine intolerance in which it makes you feel like you basically are going to die. You can have acne, irregular periods, hair loss. Those are the typical high cortisol symptoms. And I overall like to think of high cortisol as just like you’re getting, excuse my French, done, you’re just getting it done. Some people don’t even feel it. So after that from high cortisol, it starts to change.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:09:26]

So it goes from going overall high throughout the day, typically to be more high or low throughout the day. So this is when we start going into the adaptation phases of cortisol in which there might be afternoon energy crashes, trouble with waking up in the morning, there might be extra joints, joint pain, muscle aches, there might be this weird rebound in the evening. So feeling like you’re not tired and wired, but you’re feeling flatlined throughout the day. And then all of a sudden at night you’re like, oh, I got a burst of energy. And then after that we move into the low cortisol phase. And this is when we just lose everything. We lose our resiliency to stress, we lose our immune system. So typically people are getting sick all the time.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:10:01]

They have chronic fatigue, they can’t sleep. Now some can actually just sleep all the time. There’s dizziness upon standing. Sometimes there’s like pots involved. So orthostatic hypotension, low motivation, low libido, exercise intolerance. I typically see a big mood issue. So always anxious or depressed. And then salt and sugar cravings are huge when it comes down to low cortisol because the aldosterone effect, so kidney output and like how you’re wasting away, you know, potassium retaining sodium.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:10:28]

I mean, sorry, wasting away, sodium retaining potassium. But the key thing with the low cortisol is I do see significant weight gain once you reach that low cortisol phase and you’re just sick all the time and your gut is a mess. So the key thing I want people to remember is if you expect cortisol issues, there are things that you could do for both. But the best thing that you could do if you expect that there’s a cortisol issue is to try and test your cortisol via a four or six point saliva test. Because the key thing is you do not want to throw something into the mix that is going to push you high cortisol. If you have high cortisol it’s going to drop your cortisol if you have low cortisol.

Leanne Vogel [00:11:08]

And I guess that’s why it’s really important to not willy nilly just try an adrenal supplement and see what happens. Like, hey, I heard Ashwagandha is good. I’m going to give that a try and see how that helps the adrenal situation.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:11:21]

In some situations you can do that. Yeah, but I know we’ve talked about this, Leanne. Some like with adaptogens. Adaptogens help the body to adapt to the stress response. But some adaptogens are energizing, some are sedating, some are just nourishing and some, some give a little bit pep in the step for people and some make them feel like a little bit more calm. And some adaptogens can increase cortisol, some can lower cortisol. So overall with adaptogens, not only do you have that effect, but you also have the fact that with adaptogens people are very sensitive and they can respond to different things. For example, Rhodiola is amazing.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:11:55]

Whether you have low cortisol or high cortisol, it’s very nourishing. It helps with endurance and stress resiliency. But there are some people like me, if you give me Rhodiola, I’m regardless of where my cortisol is at, I’m going to have insomnia and I might have energy throughout the day. Yeah. But I’m not going to sleep. So yeah, there’s definitely a lot of situations and there are a couple adaptations that you could do. Like Ashwagandha for most people is pretty nourishing. But if somebody is very sensitive to it and they have low cortisol, there’s a chance that that Ashwagandha could crash them even further.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:12:24]

And so yeah, that’s a huge major talking point we can address more.

Leanne Vogel [00:12:29]

Yeah, exactly. I know for myself personally, oh my goodness. Adaptogens have always been a challenge for me. I mean, even too much CBD will take me over the edge and I’ll have insomnia. So it’s always really fun. It’s crazy. Like it’s just crazy. But where I’ve found to be most helpful is the amino acid side of things just like really works well for me.

Leanne Vogel [00:12:50]

And so I agree with you. I think the testing and just understanding what that pattern is is just so helpful for understand first what you’re dealing with. Because it sounds like if the symptoms are kind of, there’s a little bit of a gray area. It sounds like maybe adding in something a little bit willy nilly might cause more damage than not. Would you agree with that? Is that kind of what you’re saying?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:13:11]

Yeah, I completely agree with you.

Leanne Vogel [00:13:13]

Okay, so in the conversation of adrenal issues, there is free cortisol, metabolized cortisol. What are the difference? Should we care? Just because we’re talking about testing. And a lot of those tests will highlight these. What do we need to know when it comes to both free cortisol and metabolized cortisol?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:13:31]

Ooh, I absolutely love this question. So the Dutch test is one of the first standards that checked both free and metabolized cortisol. There’s other tests now like the humap, but overall, when we’re looking at both, free cortisol is more. So what are we making in total? Metabolized cortisol is telling us how is our body metabolizing that cortisol? So we have the 11 beta HSD enzyme, which can inactivate or activate our cortisol to cortisone. But we also have enzymes and tissues and organs in the body that can inactivate or deactivate cortisol. And so there’s different situations to where somebody can have high free cortisol, low metabolized cortisol, things like that. Overall, when we’re looking at total output of cortisol, I am looking at that free cortisol. Then past that, I am looking at what does the clearance look like? So the metabolized cortisol of somebody.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:14:21]

Okay, so when it comes down to, like the Dutch test, for example, say somebody has a low metabolized cortisol, well, that could be because of hypothyroidism, mitochondria, mitochondrial dysfunction, chronic undereating, chronic infection. And if somebody has maybe high metabolized cortisol, normal free cortisol, that could be high insulin levels, obesity. So there’s a lot of different situations in which that could be off. So the key thing is you have to address and look at both the normal, I mean, with the total cortisol and the metabolized cortisol to get the biggest picture of where does the entire body look like when it comes down to cortisol creation. Now, I don’t always pull that. I find that looking at a salivary cortisol and then looking at all the other aspects of somebody’s health, so their thyroid, their nutrient status, or sex hormones, their symptoms is a good enough clinical picture for me. But I do enjoy looking at the free versus metabolized cortisol as well, what.

Leanne Vogel [00:15:16]

Are your thoughts in regards to testing when it comes to cortisone? What are the differences? Because a lot of people hear about cortisol but not cortisone. What’s at play there?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:15:26]

Yeah, so our body inactivates cortisol to cortisone when there is either too much cortisol in times of stress, infection, inflammation. So honestly, if I’m looking at somebody’s Dutch or their adrenal panel and I’m seeing that their body is inactivating their cortisol, which is their active hormone, to cortisone, which is their inactive hormone, the first thing that my brain thinks is why? Why is the body trying to shut down that production or convert it over to the inactive form? So it might be that they just have a lot of cortisol pumping out. It might be a long term stress response. However, if you have low cortisol and then your body is switching over to cortisone, then you can feel worse because you have even less cortisol. So I do love taking a look at it. It doesn’t always change the game plan of action, but there are things that you can do to convert or prevent cortisol from transitioning into cortisone. So things like licorice can be very helpful, and that’s via that 11 beta HSD enzyme. But yeah, I’m definitely a big fan when it comes out to testing.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:16:23]

That can be a very useful tool.

Leanne Vogel [00:16:25]

And the car cortisol awakening response. Last question. On testing, what do you think about it? Do you recommend. I know that some tests will add it in or a lot of practitioners will look at this. What are we looking at when it comes to the cortisol awakening response?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:16:41]

I freaking love the cortisol wakening response. I really do. So our cortisol awakening response is basically when we wake up in the morning, our hypothalamus activates through sunlight, activates our adrenal glands to start making cortisol. And this is very important to fight inflammation, to help with autophagy. So basically the killing of destructive red blood cells, I kind of think of like a pac man. We’re just like getting those toxins out and those bad debris. And that’s very important when we’re talking about making cortisol but supporting our circadian rhythms. So cortisol is always and should be highest in the morning and lowest in the evening.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:17:15]

So if you don’t get a good cortisol awakening response, not only can that influence your energy levels, but that also can influence your body’s ability to detoxify, fight inflammation and over time with a blunted cortisol awakening response, what we see is that transient effect in the rest of your cortisol. So typically then your body’s either going to have a rebound in the evening or we’re going to see pretty much a flatline throughout the rest of the day. So that cortisol awakening response is extremely important and the best way to support that really is making sure that you get active sunlight in the morning or you can use a happy light. But the key thing is with a blunted cortisol cortisol awakening response most of the time that’s a long term stress response, a response to not having sunlight in the morning or a response from a flip flop circadian rhythm from something like always traveling or night shift work. And it’s not good. I mean if you don’t have that cortisol awakening response, you do significantly increase your risk of chronic disease, even, you know, cancers and things that can develop via oxidative damage and oxidative stress to your tissues.

Leanne Vogel [00:18:25]

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Leanne Vogel [00:18:58]

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Leanne Vogel [00:19:40]

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Dr. Georgia Ede [00:20:53]

Yeah, honestly, I like to try and like keep it as simple as possible. Most people are just exposing themselves to blue light and they’re doing things that are too stimulating to their body. So whether that’s, I mean I love reading, but whether that’s reading a intense like psychological thriller or that’s scrolling on your phone throughout the night, most people are doing things that are stimulating. And that’s honestly, cortisol will absolutely prevent you from producing the amount of melatonin that you need. So regardless of even the blue light exposure, if you’re doing something that’s stimulating to your brain. For example, last night I got engaged, right. Super excited about it. And this is so funny that we’re talking about cortisol, but my mind was just completely go, go, go.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:21:39]

It was so excited, it was overflowing thinking about like what happened last night. So essentially with, with nighttime routine, you want to do things that are going to put you more into that parasympathetic, that rest in digest mode versus that sympathetic fight or flight mode. And those things involve physical, emotional, mental, spiritual. So I can definitely give strategies. But for the most part, for your listeners, most people, you should go into your nighttime routine at least two hours before you go to bed, block blue light, wear blue light blocking glasses, put on the filter and then no scrolling. Like absolutely at least 30 minutes before you’re bed. Because that scrolling is what Even though it might not prevent, you know, melatonin from reducing down. If you’re wearing the blue light blocking, blocking glasses, it’s going to kick up that dopamine is going to kick up the norepinephrine, epinephrine, and it’s addicting and it will prevent your sleep.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:22:27]

And then what a lot of people don’t do as well is they don’t get access to moonlight. So our circadian rhythms are really tied to light, whether that’s sunlight or red light, all different forms of our infrared lights. So a lot of people, they have all this white light in their home, then they’re blasting that, when in reality we need more of that yellow dim light and we definitely need that nighttime moonlight. So that’s the first thing that I see. And then, of course, there’s the people that are working out in the evenings. Their cortisol is through the roof. After they work out, they can’t sleep. They’re not eating a snack or meal before they go to bed.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:22:58]

So their serotonin is down, they’re not calm. And then they might be waking up in the middle of the night because of an imbalance of blood sugar. And there’s a lot of other situations, but for the most part, people need to calm the hell down, have a set routine and do things that they enjoy that put. That put them into a parasympathetic mode in the evening, and they’re not doing that. Think about the moms that are just like, go, go, go, trying to get all, you know, the meal prep done and all type of stuff. You just can’t do that. If you want high quality sleep at night, you got to calm down.

Leanne Vogel [00:23:23]

Yes. I think there are two things that annoy my husband the most. One is keeping all the kitchen cabinets open. I don’t know why I do this. You know, I’ve been in the kitchen because they’re everywhere. Everything’s open. And the second is my red lights at night. Like, as soon as the sun goes down, I’m walking around the house turning on all the red lights.

Leanne Vogel [00:23:40]

It drives him crazy. But he’s been married to me long enough to know that that’s just the way that it is. And all the light bulbs also have red options. And it really has made a significant difference to my health. But I think it’s hard to stay motivated with this because what we’re talking about takes time. Do you have encouragement for those that are hearing this conversation? They’re hearing themselves in this, but they’re just, how do we get the motivation to take care of our adrenals. Why should we care? You mentioned, wait a little bit around the middle section, which might, you know, perk up the ears. But like, how do we get individuals to be like, okay, this is serious, I need to take this serious.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:24:19]

Yeah. Honestly, the reason why a lot of people don’t do or make some changes is because it seems like it’s too much. And so you have to simplify it. And we can talk about the reasons why, definitely. But the best thing to do is just pour into what fills up your cup. I like to say the best thing that you could do, if you want to make it as simple as possible, is make a list of things that stress you out on a day to day basis in your life and then make a list of things that add to your life and make you feel more fulfilled. You want to reduce those energy drainers and increase those energy fillers. That in itself is going to help you with cortisol.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:24:53]

But the reason why, and there’s other dietary lifestyle strategies we could talk about to support cortisol. But the reason why balancing your cortisol is so important is because not only does cortisol play a big role with your immune system and your ability to fight inflammation and infection, but it also significantly impacts your metabolism in your hormones. So what essentially will happen is if you’re not controlling your circadian rhythm and working on your parasympathetic nervous system and staying out of fight or flight, your body, every single part of your body is actually going to adapt. Everything starts with your adrenal glands, basically in your brain. So if you don’t take control of it, then essentially what’s going to happen is you’re going to start getting sick all the time, your sleep is going to go to crap, your thyroid is going to suppress, your sex hormones are going to be wonky, whether that’s you go into the estrogen dominance phase, or you end up with low testosterone because of aromatization issues. And then you’re just going to gain weight and you’re not going to be able to lose it. Our body adapts. And that’s the key thing that I see a lot of women not work on.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:25:52]

And it makes me so sad and angry because, you know, they’re trying to lose weight and people are telling them, okay, just do more exercise, do more cardio, do more hit. And instead of that actually helping them, they start under, eating over, exercising their cortisol even more, goes through the roof and they just keep rapidly gaining weight. Or just spinning their wheels. So it’s understanding that cortisol is there to support you and help you. But those long term effects of having high cortisol to walk into low cortisol is when you absolutely shoot yourself in the foot and you just don’t see that success. So it’s about, yes, supporting your body for long term health. But if we’re Talking about weight, 100%, the best thing that you could do is balance your cortisol rhythm and support parasympathetic nervous system.

Leanne Vogel [00:26:32]

Yes, completely. And so would you say then the ongoing theme right now, at least that I see, is a lot of women chatting with their doctors. They test their hormones and they just say, okay, let’s get you started on some estrogen or testosterone pellets or whatnot. Do you think that in most cases they’re getting to that root cause? Like, because what you just said was, I think that adrenal really needs to be taken seriously because that is going to affect the hormones. So with these ladies who are now being put on HRT in some form, do you think they’re going deep enough to discovering what’s going on with the adrenals and how that can impact the hormones overall?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:27:09]

I freaking love this question. I really do. Because the trend right now is, oh, sorry, you guys, I’m like, I don’t have a filter. It’s like, oh, I feel so terrible. Let me just hop on a testosterone palate. I’m like, I am literally going to shoot myself in the face. Because the key thing is your hormones are responding to the internal or external stressor. So the key thing is don’t just hop on hormone therapies.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:27:30]

Unless you are perimenopausal or menopausal, figure out why are your hormones going chaotic. Your hormones are your fifth vital sign. I talk about it in my book the woman’s got a hormonal harmony. Your hormones need to have a beautiful symphony. And if one part of that orchestra is off, the rest of that orchestra is going to be off. So everything truly does start with cortisol. If there’s an issue with cortisol, that will filter down into thyroid sex hormones. So the key thing is, if your hormones are going wonky, first and foremost figure out what are the things that stress out your hormones.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:27:59]

Right? And cortisol, thyroid nutrient status, toxins, gut trauma, liver dysfunction. There’s a lot of things. But I always suggest, like, if at all possible, don’t just hop on those bioidenticals or hormone replacement therapies or the birth control pill because your body’s trying to get you to like put that fire out. So you’ve got to figure out what is going on. And there are side effects. And this is not talked about to where if you have high cortisol, you have significant inflammation going on. Those hormone therapies can set you up to rapidly gain weight. And I see that a lot with estrogen, progesterone and testosterone therapy.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:28:36]

And then people are confused. They’re like, well, I went on this hormone therapy, why am I gaining weight now? Why do I look worse? Why do I feel worse? And it’s like, well, you didn’t fix the root cause and you added more stress to the system.

Leanne Vogel [00:28:46]

And do you also see that after a time they might feel better, but after two to six months, all of a sudden all those benefits to HRT kind of, you’re kind of back to square one and you feel the same as you did before taking them?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:28:59]

Yes, I see that a lot and it’s very frustrating for people. There’s other things that influence that and it has a lot to do with like changes in like sex hormone binding, globulin and free levels versus total. But overall, yeah, it’s because a lot of people aren’t fixing the root causes.

Leanne Vogel [00:29:18]

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Leanne Vogel [00:30:23]

Get yours@drank lmnt.com KDP this deal is only available through my link. All orders made come with a no questions asked refund policy. Try it totally risk free and if you don’t like it, they will give you your money back. No questions asked. Go to drink. LMNT.com KDP for your free sample pack with any order. So when it comes to the weight gain, a lot of people will call it cortisol belly of just this thing that happens when they’re stressed out and spazzed out and all the things. Do you have tips on? Is it just a matter of, okay, I think I’m dealing with this adrenal issue.

Leanne Vogel [00:31:06]

I think I need to test and go down that route, or are there other things that they can do? You know, you’ve kind of hit, hit on the inflammation piece, the diet piece. Is now a good time to talk about that or do you have other pieces in regards to the cortisol belly weight gain that you want to touch on and helping us understand what’s going on there?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:31:24]

Yeah, so essentially what really stimulates that kind of like weight gain around your midsection is alterations in your estrogen and your testosterone. So we do see with women in particular, yes, cortisol will stimulate your body to basically release glucose and no longer release fat. So that increases your chance of storage. But also your body starts shuttling your fat into your fat tissue in your midsection and it kind of becomes like an andropause. So like a low testosterone male type of weight gain for women. So the best thing that you could do is support your body with insulin sensitivity. So the best way to do that is ask, okay, what carbohydrates am I consuming, how am I consuming them, and how can I support my blood sugar and then what can I do to lower inflammation in my body? So I know for your listeners, many of them are coming from the low carb world, right? Well, when I say insulin sensitivity and balancing your blood sugar, I’m not talking about going low carb. In fact, that can make your cortisol levels even worse because if you don’t have enough carbs in your body, your body is going to even further try and pump out cortisol to get your liver to dump glucose.

Lacey Dunn [00:32:32]

And then you’ve just got even more weight resistance, insulin resistance building and potential weight gain, weight loss resistance. So the best thing that you could do is first and foremost figure out, okay, how many calories do I need? What is my goal? How can I increase insulin sensitivity by maybe walking after meals, weight training, not over taxing the body with your workouts, adapting those to where you’re not doing a lot of high intensity work, changing your cardio to where you’re doing more so walking. But then how can I focus on those more complex carbohydrates and how can I eat my carbs to help with insulin sensitivity? For example, if you take apple cider vinegar or berberine, now there’s things we could talk about with that, but that can help lower the glycemic response to a carb. But also if you eat your protein and your veggies prior to consuming your carbohydrate, that in itself will help lower that glycemic response. So it’s not always, okay, the exact food that you’re consuming, the exact carb, but how you’re eating that carb as well. And then of course, there’s the component of. Alrighty, what other different modalities can I use in my lifestyle to help reduce that cortisol output and inflammation as well? Because the inflammation in itself will also shuttle your body to put weight in the abdominal region. So how am I supporting my liver naturally? Detoxification, rich foods, a lot of water, electrolyte status, that’s huge for adrenals, because any electrolyte imbalance is going to worsen your adrenal status.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:33:53]

Same for dehydration. And then how can I reduce my toxic burden? Whether that’s environmental toxins, mold, metals, just parabens, fragrances, things like that. So toxic burden, very important. We have obesogens too, chemicals in our environment, even in our foods. Unfortunately, now that cause your body to actually change the metabolism of our body’s ability to use glucose and fatty acids for fuel and how we store it. So I like to say for the most part, you’ve got to change up your diet, focus on lifestyle factors to support inflammation and cortisol rhythm. And then there’s other things like certain specific supplementation that could be helpful.

Leanne Vogel [00:34:28]

I’m glad that you touched on that, because as soon as somebody talks about insulin resistance or increasing our sensitivity, instantly, the response is just cut the carbs, Just cut the carbs, Just cut it down. Cut the carbs. 20 grams of carbs for the rest of your life. And it sounds like this might not be the way to go. And understanding how your body responds to those carbs and how you can kind of level out your glucose sounds like a better option. I know for myself that has been so key. How do you feel about the cgm and using that like a CGM as a way to understand how your body is responding to those carbs and how to make those shifts, do you think that that could be helpful?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:35:07]

So I’ve, I’ve experimented with the CGM one time and I’m just going to be completely honest with Your listeners. I hate the CGM because I feel like it develops people to have this sense of orthorexia and food fear, and nobody, unless they are a type 1 diabetic, even a type 2 diabet, I don’t think they need. It needs this data. This data is just way too much. And your body is just beyond resilient. I don’t believe people need to be checking their blood sugar every single morning two hours after eating. Like, I think it just adds more fuel to the fire. And what I’ve seen with clients is they become so obsessed with it and so obsessed with specific foods.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:35:45]

They know their body, quote, unquote, cortisol responds to. And in fact, these CGMs aren’t even accurate. So our cortisol, I mean, our glucose could be maybe like 75, which is normal fasted, but because it’s in that interstitial fluid, it actually could show up 10 points higher. And then they think they’re going into type 1 diabetes, and I’m like, calm down. Like, it’s. It’s not fully accurate. So honestly, I hate saying it because the company keeps begging me to work with them, honestly. So I’m sorry about it, but I just hate them because it’s just developed so many issues for people.

Leanne Vogel [00:36:16]

I was not expecting that at all. I love your honesty. So it’s funny, like. Like, I used the CGM right around the time I was trying to figure out whether or not I wanted to stay on low carb. And wearing a CGM was the thing that encouraged me to eat more carbs and eat more in general.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:36:34]

And it was really, for you, I want to know, like, what made you even further help you with that?

Leanne Vogel [00:36:39]

Yeah, I think just. And also, too, I noticed that my glucose dropped down significantly while I was sleeping. And so that encouraged me to start eating a lot more and eating more, like, before bed. Because I had so many food rules around fasting and, you know, all the keto stuff that you just develop over time. And so I find the CGM to be a really good tool to encourage individuals to actually eat more and start incorporating more carbohydrates. But I could see how it could become quite obsessive. Like, it has always helped me, like, when I find I’m not eating enough carbs, which I’m told often by somebody in my life by the name of Lacy, I’m not eating enough carbs. Oftentimes they’ll be like, okay, like, what’s going on? I’ll slap on a cgm.

Leanne Vogel [00:37:24]

I’ll be like, huh, look at that. Yeah, that’s, that’s totally true. I, I will actually do better on more carbohydrates. And so it’s interesting to hear you say that, that you don’t enjoy them. And I could see, I could see why. I know for myself it has been the most invaluable tool and I think I would have been still stuck in a rut and not seeing the bigger picture had I not worn my first cgm, at least for myself personally.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:37:48]

No, that’s good. And I’m open minded to them in certain situations and I’m so glad it’s worked for you. And I know like sometimes people put them on others that have like eating disorders or food fears and I have a whole, like, it’s hard for me to see that because you could then develop them. But if you think about it, like for you, I’m glad you brought that up because if you’re doing a CGM and encourages you to eat more and it shows you, hey, my metabolism actually doesn’t hate me, like that could give you a push to actually eat more. So praise God, that that worked for you.

Leanne Vogel [00:38:17]

Yes. And especially eating more before bed, like that has, that has helped my sleep so much. Like having a protein snack, a little bit of fat, a little bit of carbs before bed and I sleep like a baby. And the CGM was very much a tool to that. I was waking up because my glucose was getting too low. And so that was like, hey, now I know. But I could see how it could be detrimental for some individuals as, as all of these things can. You know, I think when we make all these things an idol and we put so much attention into it and we think if I just get to this next level, I’ll be happy and things will be better.

Leanne Vogel [00:38:53]

I think we have to understand that it’s never going to be perfect the side of heaven. And that kind of like takes the pressure off a little bit. Would you agree?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:39:00]

Yeah. And something I want to bring up too is like cortisol. Cortisol is not the demon that we need to run away from. We want cortisol in times of fight or flight, stress, illness, infection, working out. We want it there. And we shouldn’t be scared of things that pump our cortisol. For example, my engagement, I’m not concerned about that. Right.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:39:18]

So there are things that we could do, lifestyle diet strategies with supplementation that can help our body with adapting to that stress. So it’s not the fact that cortisol should be demonized. It’s just we don’t want this long term cortisol response to where then our body’s physiological processes are just going to go chaotic with us.

Leanne Vogel [00:39:36]

And I think the same is true for glucose. Like, I think that a lot of people are terrified of glucose and insulin and it’s like these things are good things like this, we don’t need to be terrified of this. And so I’m glad that you touched on that. When it comes to infections, you mentioned that a little bit that cortisol can increase due to infections. Any other pieces that you want to talk about on the infection side of things like pathogens and toxins and how it can affect adrenals overall? Because, because a lot of people might test and see, okay, well, I have low adrenal function, I’m going to go on some supplements. And then it just doesn’t get better because there’s bigger root causes at play. Any thoughts on how to strategize around that?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:40:16]

Yeah, there’s a lot. So whenever you do first and foremost have a high cortisol output that’s fighting inflammation, but that’s actually suppressing your immune system. And not only that, but it’s causing potentially normally heightened intestinal permeability. So leaky gut, so those tight junctions in your gut are becoming damaged. Cortisol does that and then you start developing a suppressed immune system, obviously. But then pathogen overload starts to happen. Whether that’s you’re contracting, you know, H. Pylori, parasites, bacteria, and then you have reactivation of viral pathogens, whether that’s, you know, Lyme, Borrelia babsia.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:40:53]

And the key thing is cortisol is an essential component to help fight inflammation and infection. And when you drip, dip down into that low cortisol phase and you’re trying to now fix these things, cortisol, not only is it there to help you actually get over that infection, but it’s also there to help protect your cells. So I like to think of that cortisol like a fence around our cell here. So if we’ve got gut pathogens, toxicities, overgrowth, environmental toxins, and that cortisol is not there, we’re low, we’re tanked, and we’re trying to do a gut phase, we’re trying to work online, we’re trying to work on our mold or heavy metals, our body can’t take that. We’re going to feel like we got hit by a truck and we’re going to develop mitochondrial dysfunction and the cells of our body going to be healthy and happy. And that’s when we also walk into increase of what’s called senescent cells. And we start developing a lot of oxidative damage, a lot of oxidative stress. Then we start developing mast cell issues.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:41:48]

So the key thing is you cannot, and you do not want to address any like, significant overgrowth pathogen toxicity if you have low cortisol. That’s why it’s extremely important, in my opinion. If there’s something going on, you’ve got to work on the gut, you’re working on toxicities, you’ve got to look at your adrenal glands, because if you don’t, you can make yourself feel worse and get worse.

Leanne Vogel [00:42:08]

So what you’re saying is some of these protocols, when you start to add in antimicrobials and you’re working through drainage and all those things, it can actually affect the adrenals more.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:42:17]

So, yeah, and it really can. So, for example, and this is hard to talk about, but you know, when you’re going through a. And I know you felt this too, when you’ve gone through. And I felt it too, when you’re going through a phase, whether that’s like, hey, I’ve gotten H. Pylori or hey, I’ve gotten Candida or, hey, I got a parasite, right? Like, when you’re doing these protocols, this is hard on your body. Your body, as you’re taking that, whatever you’re taking, whether that be oregano, garlic, biofilm disruptors, whatever it is, it’s going to be hard on your body because as you’re killing off those pathogens, they’re going to be releasing toxins into your body that’s going to increase your cortisol. So typically people, actually their adrenal status gets a little bit worse as they’re going on these programs. As you’re trying to kill off the gut bugs, get rid of the toxicin toxins, you can have, you know, suboptimal alterations in your thyroid and your sex hormones and your adrenal status.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:43:03]

So it’s extremely important to know where are you sitting at. That way you can mitigate those side effects as you go through treatment.

Leanne Vogel [00:43:08]

The last piece that you talked about a little bit ago was just nutrient balance overall and how you enjoy, like, testing for nutrients and understanding nutrient status. How does that influence the overall cortisol picture? Because it sounds like understanding where your adrenals are at important with the Dutch test, but where does the, the testing of nutrients play a role? Or do you test it and kind of what’s Your approach there.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:43:33]

Yeah. So when it comes down to nutrients, we are not, we are not what we eat, we are what we digest, absorb and assimilate. And I see a lot of people that are overfed and undernourished. And the key thing is if we do not have the building blocks that we need to make cortisol, thyroid hormone, sex hormones to go through, you know, the Krebs cycle and have all our body make like our ATP and our energy and our neurotransmitters, we’re going to feel terrible. So you cannot fix a long term cortisol issue, you cannot fix a thyroid issue, you cannot fix a hormone issue until you’ve made sure that you have the nutrients that you need to have your body optimally thriving. So that’s why I truly, and I hate seeing it, because a lot of people have nutrient deficiencies and they’re doing so well in their diet. But I, I’m so adamant you have to do nutrient testing because unless you’ve made sure that you are completely got everything that you need, there are going to be alterations in your hormones, whether that’s cortisol, thyroid, sex hormones, and with the fact that too like with weight gain, you need all these B vitamins, amino acids in order, electrolytes like potassium in order to have that insulin sensitivity. And if you’re deficient in something, you can still have that weight gain, that chronic fatigue, the acne, you can have all these issues regardless.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:44:47]

So nutrient testing is like one of the best things and most important things that I recommend for people.

Leanne Vogel [00:44:52]

So those listening, they’ve come through this whole conversation and they’re ready to kind of like take those first steps. What words of encouragement do you have for the lady listening that feels like this is absolutely a conversation that she needs to dig into and really start to action. Where should she start? What should she do?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:45:13]

First thing I want your listeners to do is evaluate what are your needs, the things that you need to get done under the day to day on a day to day basis and what are your wants, the things that you want to get done on the day to day basis. Because your to do list and your priorities in life are the first thing that are going to impact, in my opinion, stress on an emotional and mental spiritual based level. And then you want to make sure, hey, are my workouts helping me or they’re actually hurting me? Am I balancing my blood sugar throughout the day? Am I consuming enough water? Do I have electrolyte status to support my adrenals and minerals? What are the Things that potentially could stress my body out. Just look, you don’t have to change everything at once. Just look at what are my toxicities, what’s my water like, what’s my, you know, air quality like, what are the products that I use for cleaning or cooking. So I like to say make simple swaps. Start looking at your environment, start looking at your day to day life. And lastly, because I think this is extremely important, start looking at the people that are in your life because your community and the people that you expose your body to 100% can either put you in fight or flight or put you in the parasympathetic state.

Leanne Vogel [00:46:16]

Yes. And that should keep you busy for quite a while, just picking through things.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:46:20]

And there’s a lot to do. But like with cortisol, if you feel like there’s a cortisol issue, first and foremost, just make that list what fills up your life, what drains you from your life and start working on that list.

Leanne Vogel [00:46:32]

And I think the needs versus wants. I think it’s so often we can put all people’s needs in front of our own. And so you might notice on that list that you created that there’s actually nothing that actually sparks joy. So I encourage those listening to like actually work through that list full well because it will make a big difference and you’ll start to see patterns for sure.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:46:54]

Yeah. And one more thing I’ll bring up, and this is the hardest part, so don’t start with this because it’ll make you feel worse, is a lot of people have chronic trauma that they’ve never released, whether that’s in their body or emotional mental reactions. So you really have to work on those things because other than that, like your body is trained to have a reaction from your past. So if you don’t work on past experiences and traumas, your body is going to have this innate response that’s going to trigger and it might not be, for example, a stressor in your life that you react to. Sometimes it’s the body that is trained to have that flight or flight response. So you also have to work on those things because over time those will continue to hinder you from actually having balanced cortisol.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:37]

Yes. Lacey, thanks for coming on the show today and dropping so many knowledge bombs. Moms, where can people learn more from you and connect with you?

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:47:44]

Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much for having me on. Hopefully I didn’t piss any of your listeners off with the cgm.

Leanne Vogel [00:47:50]

I love it.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:47:50]

You guys. My Instagram is at Faith and Fit, so I put a lot of posts and stories. My goal is to completely just educate people and make sure that they feel as confident and supported as possible with their health goals. I also have a book, the Women’s Guide to Hormonal Harmony. So that will give you the tools, knowledge and confidence that you need to take your health back, but also your body back. And that’s on Amazon. And then if you want to check out my Root cause radio, you could do that as well. And then feel free to always like slip in my DMs if you have questions on testing.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:48:15]

If you just want to chat, I’m basically always on there. But thank you so much, Leanne, for having me on. It’s been such a pleasure to get to chat with you and I love that you’re a fellow little nerdy self. So this has been lovely.

Leanne Vogel [00:48:26]

Yes. And I will include all the links that you just mentioned in the show notes. If you guys aren’t sure of the spelling of anything, just check out the show notes today. I’ll include Lacy’s website and her Instagram and the book and her podcast. And yeah, thanks for coming on. This was a blast.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:48:41]

Yeah, you’re so welcome. And I’m all about too. Like, I have a bunch of different resources in my book, but if anybody has questions on like, hey, like, should I take vitamin C or like, you know, Ashwagandha or Magnolia based on my status, please don’t hesitate to ask me questions. I love questions. So I do want to reiterate that because I know a lot of people are scared sometimes to ask somebody, they’re like, ah, she’s an author. But like, please do. I love questions.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:03]

Yes. And you’re very good at answering them. So thanks. Thank you for doing what you do every day.

Dr. Georgia Ede [00:49:08]

Oh, I love it.

Leanne Vogel [00:49:14]

Thanks for listening to the Healthful Pursuit podcast. Join us next Tuesday for another episode of the show. If you’re looking for free resources, there are a couple of places you can go. The first to my blog, healthfulpursuit.com where you’re going to find loads of recipes. The second is a free parasite protocol that I’ve put together for you that outlines symptoms, testing and resources to determine whether or not you have a parasite, plus a full protocol to follow to eradicate them from your life if you need to. That’s available at healthfulpursuit.com parasites and last but certainly not least, a full list of blood work markers to ask your doctor for so that you can get a full picture of your health. You can grab that free resource by going to healthfulpursuit.com labs. The helpful pursuit Podcast, including show notes and links, provides information in respect to healthy living recipes, nutrition and diet and is intended for informational purposes only.

Leanne Vogel [00:50:10]

The information provided is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor is it to be construed as such. We cannot guarantee that the information provided on the Health Pursuit Podcast reflects the most up to date medical research. Information is provided without any representation or warranties of any kind. Please consult a qualified health practitioner with any questions you may have regarding your health and nutrition program.

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Hi! I'm Leanne (RHN FBCS)

a Functional Medicine Practitioner, host of the Healthful Pursuit Podcast, and best-selling author of The Keto Diet & Keto for Women. I want to live in a world where every woman has access to knowledge to better her health.

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